As I was putting the finishing touches on my previous post, I took a quick side trip to eBay in order to double check something, while there, I of course had to get distracted and start searching for things that had nothing to do with the nearly finished post.
While searching through the recently sold items, I came across some stuff from a seller,
pre1971cards, that ended up piquing my interest (and not necessarily in a good way), enough so in fact, that I decided to write a post all about this one particular seller... and his listings:
A sold listing for this reproduction 2011 Topps Update Mike Trout rookie is what initially caught my eye. Oh, and as a quick aside before I get too far along here, I should probably mention that isn't going to be another
post in which I go after someone for selling counterfeits (well, I guess it sort of is, but in a more light-hearted way), nor will it be an expose about fakes on eBay, as that would kind of be like writing an in-depth piece on water being wet. No, instead this is more of a "why would you risk it?" sort of post.
Anyway, back to the Trout rookie for a moment. I had no idea that such modern cards were already being
counterfeited reproduced, but apparently they are. This card is being sold as a reproduction, and the seller does mention that it doesn't have it's foil on the front (the silver you see is from a printer), but of course the card itself doesn't say that it's a fake anywhere on it... which means that someone could, and probably has, been fooled by one of these at some point (likely at some dimly lit card show).
We all know that eBay doesn't care about these, and I know Topps doesn't care about all the vintage counterfeit stuff, but I am a bit surprised that they wouldn't care about something so modern being reproduced, especially something that is depicting one of their meal tickets. Plus, if I remember correctly, Gavin drew the ire of Topps for doing something far less egregious than this, customs with a Topps logo aren't even in the same league as straight up counterfeits with a Topps logo, so what's up Topps?
As is often the case, I'm getting a bit side tracked, but before I get back on the path, let's take a quick look at a few more of this seller's offerings (trust me, it's relevant to the supposed point of the post):
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| 2012 Topps #661 Bryce Harper Rookie Autograph (reproduction) |
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| 2000 Bowman Tom Brady RC (reproduction) |
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| 1986-87 Fleer Stickers Michael Jordan (reproduction) |
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| 2000 Fleer Tradition Autographics Tom Brady (reproduction) |
And of course, what self-respecting
counterfeiter reproducer doesn't have a
'52 Mantle amongst their offerings? This one even comes in a screw-down case! I also like that it's described as "has that aged look", that's good , because I don't like my fake Mantle's to have that "fresh off the printer look"!
Okay, so now that you've gotten a taste of this seller's bread and butter, let's take a look at their caviar and lobster:
All the other cards that you've seen are listed as reproductions,
but this 1952 Topps Willie Mays RC is genuine... at least according to the seller it is. I honestly don't whether it's real or not, but I don't think I'd chance it from someone with someone who has so many other fakes for sale, including another card from this same set. I also like that he's (I'm assuming it's a "he") selling this card for $499, but couldn't be bothered to take literally one second to straighten the scan.
If $499 is a bit out of your price range...
... then how about a 1929-30 Rogers Peet Ty Cobb for $350? I'll be honest here, I am not familiar with this set in the least. According to the JSA website, it was a promotional issue, which also happens to be one of the "one of the scarcest of all 1930’s baseball issues", and this person just so happens to have what is probably the second most desirable card in the set (I guess having a Babe Ruth for sale might be a little too suspicious). Again, I'm not able to say whether this card is genuine or not, but everything about it screams fake to me.
I'm guessing that most people reading this wouldn't take a chance on either of the above two cards, but looking through the seller's sold listings, I did find at least one person willing to bite on one of his "genuine" cards...
... and it just so happens to be one of the most counterfeited Topps cards of all time! That's right, somebody bought a
1963 Topps Pete Rose rookie from a seller -- who's inventory consists primarily of fakes -- for $275.
Just in case I'm wrong, I won't come right out and say that this one wasn't legit, but anybody who's even the slightest bit familiar with the history of this card knows that it would be suspect from any seller, let alone this one. I know that if I ever have the money for a Pete Rose RC, I would only buy one that has been authenticated, and even then part of me would still always wonder if it truly was real. Obviously someone either had too much money for their own good, or they just didn't have any doubts as to it's authenticity. Me? I wouldn't have touched it with the proverbial ten-foot pole... how about you?
Thanks for taking a moment to look at my page.
You're absolutely right to be suspicious of this seller; I wouldn't buy any 'real' cards from someone who sells "reproduction" cards. Overall, this is why I prefer PSA-graded singles. The extra cost is worth the peace of mind when you're shopping for cards like these.
ReplyDeleteThis is the second time that I've come across a seller who was selling both reproductions and "real" cards. The first time was just a couple of months back, that seller had a mix of 1933 Goudey's, some were being sold as genuine, while others were being sold as reprints, the funny thing was though, both types looked identical... so obviously I did bid on anything, because from the scans I couldn't tell if there was any difference. Maybe I should've put the seller on blast too, as people seem to like/respond to these counterfeit posts.
DeleteDid you happen to look at the sold items for that Cobb?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.ebay.com/itm/1930-Rogers-Peet-TY-COBB-Aged-Reprint-SALE-BUY-ANY-5-ITEMS-GET-2-FREE-/322916387376?hash=item4b2f510a30%3Ag%3A6LEAAOSwekhZ4SM-&nma=true&si=Ygf0aXw1%252BZxhYY5dvg4axbwR16w%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
That is the EXACT SAME CARD the user is selling for $500!!!! Look at the edges. The "cut" is identical between the aged reprint that sold for $4 and the more aged one that is not ID'd as a reprint, but 100% is.
I reported that Cobb as a fraudulent listing. Let's see what eBay does about it.
No, I didn't look into the Cobb that much, but I'm glad you did, especially since you're absolutely right about it being the same card. I'd like to think that eBay would do something about it, but in the end I suspect that they won't.
DeleteKind of like someone paying for one item at the checkout with three under their coat.
ReplyDeleteGreat analogy!
DeleteI've got a post scheduled for this week about my recent interest in graded cards. This is just one reason for that interest.
ReplyDeleteI'd love to sit down with this seller to explain to him/her that flooding the hobby with reproductions is bad for the hobby. I can see from his/her viewpoint that it's an easy way to make money, but it's really wrong. Illegal? Probably/maybe not. But it's definitely going to catch someone off guard eventually. And that's not even going into the whole issue of getting these reproductions into the hands of shady dealers who won't advertise them as reproductions. Very disheartening.
I was surprised to see the reproductions of modern autographs too, I mean I've seen all the fake signed '33 Goudey's on eBay, but I had never seen newer fake autographs like this.
DeleteI suspect that most of the people that buy these kind of reproductions, are only doing so to try and pass them off as real to someone else, which is something that bugs me to no end. So much so in fact, that I've sort of been toying with doing a regular series that would call out these people, and also hopefully try to help people steer clear of particular sellers.
i reported the Cobb too. sellers like this make me ill. scamming scammers. thanks for sharing his ID! no way would i purchase even a base card from someone like this.
ReplyDeleteHopefully a couple of reports will be enough to get the item taken down, or at the very least, make the seller change his listing and state that it is a reproduction.
DeleteReproduction have ruined the hobby for newbies who may not know the difference. Glad u have pointed the out
ReplyDeleteIt's definitely a major problem, I just wish more people would try to take a stand against it. If enough people did, who knows, even eBay might change some of their policies, which then might help cut down on some of these from being made... or at least from getting into so many people's hands.
DeleteI know it's by no means a new thing, but the counterfeiting/reproducing is really getting out of hand. There is absolutely no reason anyone would make a reproduction of a card than to rip somebody off. Nobody WANTS to own an "aged" reproduction. Buying cards online gets less and less tempting with each passing day with stuff like this.
ReplyDeleteIt's definitely not new, but I think with the printer's and scanner's constantly getting better, it's definitely making it easier for these people to make more than ever before... and of course, eBay allowing them to sell their wares certainly doesn't help discourage them from creating them.
DeleteThe missing silver over the topps logo is a variation, psa said out of the 6300 or so they've graded they found 50 not to have the silver over the topps logo. As long as other factors match up.
ReplyDeleteThat is interesting to know, thank you. I doubt though that this seller would've had dozens of genuine copies of something that rare then.
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